In this video, Chuck and I go over Super Saiyan 2 Gohan from the Dragon Ball Z Cell Games VS SSJ2 Cabba from Dragon Ball Super and explain the matchup in great detail. Why people are confused, and why it’s really not what the average viewer thinks it is. Enjoy.
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slop era
Tbh setting the record straight a bit, the harsh truth is that the U6 saiyans could and should be able to be as powerful as Goku & Vegeta (amongst others). The issue lies narratively, partially tying into Super's whole issue of having solutions to alot of stuff but seeming to ignore it selectively due to not needing it. Like I doubt anyone would've had as much of an issue if they simply stated Cabba was being trained by Vados, because Champa saw what Beerus & Whis were doing with their Saiyans. But as far as we know they just kinda go against what Z tried to establish about natural born strength.
There's are a lot of misconceptions of goku absorbing ssg in his base from yes goku dose have the power of ssg in his base form but when he turns ssj he's hair turns blue do to the god ki & tranquility the whole thing about goku & vegeta can go ssg on top of them absorbing it into there base from is headcanon/misconception
Reason 100000000000000042 why power scaling sucks.
When we get into talking about literal trillions as power levels, we're talking drivel. How it SHOULD be:
1. The new villain is like 10% stronger than the prior, not 300%.
2. Growth over time should be much lower. Cabba should not be 1000x stronger in a 1-2 year span.
Ironically, the perfect example of how it could've been is Goku vs Krillin in Super. Like, yes, Goku is way stronger and shouldn't have had to go Blue at all. But base vs base, Goku should be at most 10x stronger bc he never got lazy with training and he's Goku. 10x is a margin that still allows for error. Gohan in the Android Saga was WAYYY stronger than even Super Perfect Cell… but still within the range where taking that blast for Vegeta mattered. In my headcanon, THAT Gohan is barely weaker than like Majin Vegeta. Whereas adult SSJ2 Gohan vs MV is a low diff. In the same way, if Goku got cocky and ate a full power Krill-mehameha, he could get hurt enough to facilitate a SSJ transformation.
Bro this is just like the OG 2016 days 🥹
people really are making headcanon into thinking vegeta was suppressing his base form against cabba, when nowhere in the anime nor manga ever stated this 😂. in fact, vegeta himself made it clear cabba could even out his galick gun in base form. theres a reason why vegeta was so shocked that cabba couldn’t go super saiyan 🤦♂️
Bro stop. Saiyan Beyond God or SSGod power in Base Form was a DISCONTINUED Concept right after Revival of F movie. Cus it actually doesn't make any sense and much less when we see Goku being clearly superior when he has to Transform into SSGod. So stop using that massive high balling for everyone when u compare to it. It was simply a DISCONTINUED Concept, it's no longer part of the Canon. And that fight with Monaka Bills is just filler c'mon. You can't take those unsupervised scenes seriously.
Super fans are so wishy washy its funny.
They hate how strong Cabba and everyone else is because of horrible power creep. Yet they swear Super is written good.(Its not)
Zesty ass opening by Chuck what the fuck was that tone 😭
"unquantifiably fodder" xD
Narratively speaking, Gohan is extremely stronger. The story presents Gohan as the pinnacle of power, the single strongest fighter ever in the Cell saga, and we have to introduce Kaioshins and Dabura and Majin Buu for there to be stronger fighters.
Cabba's power in the narrative has only ever been a novelty, just a little thing that Vegeta took interest in. Nobody would ever bother to count the amount of characters stronger than Cabba, and Cabba's power never made an important impact on the story. Cabba's power level is meaningless but SSJ2 Gohan's is the peak. Of course the power scales they're on is completely different, obviously just about every active fighter is stronger than just about everything in Z; but when it comes to their places in the story, Gohan is stronger.
idc about scaling Teen Gohan molests all of Super because he is COOOOOOOOOOL
Cabba is seemingly stronger but a much worse fighter. Lol, angry Gohan would fuck him up, especially over time
Cabba stomps
Fighting strong people doesn't mean anything when everyone holds back. Unless of course we're arguing that Krillin is stronger than all of Z because he fought Goku in super. This despite the fact that Krillin still fears bullets that kid Goku could shrug off.
Actually daizenshuu 5 doesn't say cell is stronger than ever, just that his strength is the same as before he was casted into hell
One issue i have is if ssj red is absorbed into base form then wouldn't ssj serve the same purpose as ssj blue since blue is the super saiyan transformation of red
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I think the main reason people think Gohan wins is the funky scaling in DBS. Goku went super Saiyan Blue while brawling with Krillin. Initially he went super Saiyan but switched to blue shortly after. This kind of scaling would put Krillin above Super Saiyan Caba.
I think scaling anyone aside from the end game tournament of power opponents to Goku or Vegeta is really hard.
That leaves Caba pretty much featless. I'm not disagreeing with your conclusion, but i understand why people think Gohan is more powerful.
If Cabba was as cool as ssj2 Gohan people would have come to a different conclusion.
The argument would be that power levels effectively plateaued during the Cell arc and the slight gains since then have been insignificant in terms of power and are just feats based on the efficient use of power, placing every threat and power of the Buu arc within the realm of SSJ2 Gohan non-amped up to maybe 1.5x SS2 Gohan amped with his arm nerfed. Then you have to consider than Gohan is gonna be amped and not nerfed in this battle and consider that transformation multipliers are fractions of what they are canonically stated to be, as it makes little to no sense that someone would have to try when fighting super saiyan Blue Goku and still be roughly on par with that x10 Kaioken on top of it. The multipliers at this point have little to no realistic effect. Considering this, it makes sense to see power levels, especially in Super, as logarithmic in fuction. Meaning Cabba might not be all that much more powerful than base Goku from Buu and the fun Berus has had with Goku is simply that Goku's base has approached his super forms power, kinda like how the power ups in Naruto are additive so getting a power up post time skip wasn't nearly as effective as pre time skip, even if they were the same buff. However these aren't the same buff, they are a diminishing buff as the super forms powers integrate into the base form, like how Goku's base and regular super saiyan became more comparable to Super Saiyan God after Goku first used the form. Sure, the bases have risen, but the peaks haven't moved much. Hence the super saiyan wall during the cell games. The forms have their caps that raising the base won't affect very much. So even if Cabba's base is higher than Gohan's base, his peak isn't necessarily as high as his transformations don't increase his power the same way Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 would increase his own. Meaning the gap isn't really there once both transform and Gohan has unique amping abilities that nobody else has.
It's a very bullshit argument, but there's one way of looking at it. Transformations still boost, but the base forms essentially adopt their power, the power scaling also flat lines, which is why base Goku can even fight final form Frieza in Resurrection F, who should've been untouchable for base Goku if we really think about how the multipliers work and the fact Frieza trained that form and Goku's base even by the end of Buu very well could've been, anywhere from 3 to 10x what it was when he fought Frieza up multiple 100x. I always hated that 100x multiplier on base power from training though. It just doesn't track with the majority of the series or the idea of a super saiyan wall that Vegeta describes during the Android Saga. There is a cap and it was hit not that far above where Goku was within a year of becoming a super saiyan. Goku and Future Trunks, after all, we're relative to each other when they first met, and despite Goku's training for 3 years and the massive amount of higher gravity training Vegeta did, they weren't all that different
Gohan does 2 pushups
And oneshots cabba
Unironically would be enough
Seth cabba isn’t equal to Vegeta sir, because goku never absorbed god into his base. And I can prove it
Cabba has less aura (-100000) so he loses
Aura off?!
It’s ok because current Gohan one taps
idk, i think ssj2 gohan is equal to golden frieza
Cabba is way stronger than everyone in buu saga maybe excluding Vegito and Buuhan, just because we see goku mentally fighting Frieza and Cell one shoting them before going against kid buu in just ssj form, that automatically sacles goku 8 times stronger than buu saga goku who was alredy who knows how many times stronger than cell saga goku, and this is even before he gets the whis training, so yeah Cabba should be as strong as ultimate gohan in base. We do not count the monaka fighting cuz that is just some anime filler shit
Do solo videos. Nobody likes Chuck
Can you do buu sage goku vs ultimate Gohan vs buu saga gotenks next ?
Honestly, even though most DB fans, myself included, prefer Gohan I am not even sure why or how this is even a question with how the scaling works and such. Base Cabba pretty much stomps most of Z and it is just over kill once he goes SSJ or SSJ2 so not sure why people feel Gohan would even have a prayer of winning aside from he has muscles? he looks more badass? which doesn't work when you are talking VS battles. So I agree, the only way Gohan wins if if you basically use a bunch of head cannon nonsense or handicap Cabba big time…or use the logic of "Gohan has more training and battle experience than Cabba" which honestly isn't proof since we know nothing about Cabba and his training since before the U6 tournament.
Super sayian 2 teen gohan post puberty from daima slams cabba
W
“I’m not gonna lie, you’re gonna have to lie.” That is hilarious.
Yeah I definitely speak for the fan base when it’s an unsettling thing we see this version of Gohan lose to a character who looks like a pencil. We love Cabba, but his design is trash they gave him no development in that category. So it’s a bitter pill to swallow. But it’s understandable there is no conceivable reality we are Gohan at this level ever defeat Cabba. What most fans don’t realize is this, Cabba is not equal to Vegeta‘s base form. That was Vegeta just hyping him up because he wanted to inspire him to see how strong he could get to give him a credible fight. Even so, Cabba still beats SSJ2 Teen Gohan no diff.
It’s no different than when Goku was goading Uub to bring out his maximum power level. The only difference is Uub the reincarnation of Kid Buu. So he’s got more inner potential than all the Z fighters combined.
“I’m not gonna lie, you’re gonna have to lie.” That is hilarious.
Yeah I definitely speak for the fan base when it’s an unsettling thing we see this version of Gohan lose to a character who looks like a pencil. We love Kaaba, but his design is trash they gave him no development in that category. So it’s a bitter pill to swallow. But it’s understandable there is no conceivable reality we are Gohan at this level ever defeat Cabo. What would most fans don’t realize it is not equal to Vegeta‘s baseborn. That was Vegeta just hyping him up because he wanted to inspire him to see how strong he could get to give him a credible fight.
It’s no different than Goku was Golding you you be to bring out his maximum power level. The only difference was you know who is the reincarnated or the reincarnation of Kid Buu. So he’s got more inner potential than everybody combined. When it comes to Vegeta, he’s essentially becoming a teacher or a master onto,. This is why later on, refers to as a teacher or a sensei or a master.
@SethYouTuber Wassup bro! I love that you're back doing these videos and I kinda have a request about Trunks vs Mecha freeza. Me and my homies have been trying to crack down if whether trunks can actually beat Mecha freeza or he was just a dumbass and let his guard down and got killed. You probably won't see this comment at all but I just wanted to know. Especially the difference between the manga and anime adaptation. Again, love your videos
If you exclude bad writing, Gohan solos.
i think cabba wins no matter what if he is fighting the teen version of gohan that went ss2 for the first time, but modern adult beast mode with potential unlocked gohan just going super saiyan 2 after de rusting and actually training he slaps cabba in base or not in base at that point. all the super characters just start scaling insane with godki
Gohan wins because he’s cooler
Once Gohan sees red, its over.
Cabba would be a better son than Gohan
gohan wins due to being superior in every way
IF your answer is not Cabba blitzes Gohan, then brother it;s time to go out and touch some grass.
I just find it funny that, in cases like these, people will claim that Cabba being equal to Vegeta was ridiculous or even claim that Vegeta was lying when saying they're equal. But when it comes to scaling to GT, these sentiments were nowhere to be seen
this guy has no clue what he's talking about lol