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Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with entrepreneur, author, and prior member of Justin Trudeau’s administration, Celina Caesar-Chavannes. They discuss her time in the Canadian government, the Prime Minister’s modus operandi, the use of tokenism over substantive contribution, and why she ultimately decided to resign.
Celina Caesar-Chavannes is a dynamic leader with an impressive track record across business, politics, and advocacy. Currently completing her PhD in Neuroscience, Celina’s research focuses on how cognitive and emotional processes intersect to influence leadership, decision-making, and self-actualization. She translates these insights into practical strategies for Cognitive Optimized Inclusive Leadership (COIL) – a program she designed to help individuals and organizations harness the power of their brain for authentic leadership, fostering deeper self-awareness, well-being, and transformation. Her leadership programs emphasize the importance of integrating neuroscience into leadership development to build more inclusive, empathetic, and effective leaders.
This episode was filmed on October 8th, 2024
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“Can You Hear Me Now?: How I Found My Voice and Learned to Live with Passion and Purpose” (Book) https://www.amazon.com/Can-You-Hear-Me-Now/dp/0735279594
| Chapters |
(0:00) The “We Who Wrestle With God” Tour
(0:43) Coming up
(1:15) Intro
(3:56) Celina’s role in the Trudeau Administration, an affinity toward liberal dynamism
(9:02) No prior political experience, knocking on 40,000 doors
(12:53) Celina’s background with her award winning company
(20:26) Serving as Parliamentary Secretary to Justin Trudeau: early excitement
(23:03) Very little interaction with Trudeau, not allowed to speak during question period
(30:31) Why there can’t be a gap between Parliamentary Secretary and Prime Minister
(33:31) Celina’s first meeting with Trudeau, “because it’s 2015”
(36:55) “Do you trust my judgment?” Apprehension at Trudeau’s flippant statements
(42:11) African-Canadian issues were tokenized, purposely left out of on-issue meetings
(48:59) The effects of being sidelined, loss of confidence and resolve
(52:04) “I had to be hyper-visible,” the stress of being on display as a black woman
(58:32) Personal reassessment and choosing not to follow marching orders
(1:04:57) Three establishes a pattern: why so many resigned
(1:06:36) When Celina told Trudeau she was leaving politics, “seriously not good”
(1:09:57) There’s more – Trudeau’s phone call
(1:12:44) Jody Wilson-Raybould, “sunny ways”
(1:15:51) Wounded narcissism, Celina’s last meeting with Trudeau
(1:24:04) Was it the right choice? Standing for what’s right over what is personally convenient
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What a resilient woman!
Celine, Celine, Celine. Mental healthcare reformed in Canada?
Let's take one thread . . . . .
In Canada, the age group most affected by suicide rates is primarily those aged 15 to 34. However, there has been a significant focus, amounting to five billion dollars thanks to Celine and Trudeau, on individuals aged 15 to 24, which is the group defined as youth for allocating those funds (though "youth" can extend up to age 30 depending on their so called research).
However, while youth are considered at higher risk, with rates increasing in 2019/2020, the highest number of suicide deaths actually occurs among adults aged 45 to 54.
Now, suicide rates are a critical indicator in recognizing mental health issues, right?
So excuse my skepticism, but what is this sick sorcery involving a five billion dollar advocacy?
Also, how was it being the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Development.
Why were you so scared Justin Trudeau? Aren't you a "survivor" of racism.
I'm very impressed with Selena s integrity and self awareness. As the saying goes " to thy own self be true". If we had more people in politics with her qualities we truly would be a great country! God bless you Selena!❤😊
A great inside look of a clown world court
Full length ads 👎
This is self serving. Her ego at the time blinded her to the fact that she was working for a leader that was known for being a narcissist of the highest order with no qualms about wearing blackface.
His whole persona was on display for years.
I taughts Celina children at summer camp during this period and she was always very sweet and genuine
Here is a unique interpretation of the Fall of Man story, focusing on the dynamics of temptation and desire, where Adam’s sexual pursuit represents the “serpent” in the narrative and the forbidden fruit represents the dawning of self-awareness, responsibility, and the consequences of yielding to desire.
The Fall of Man: A Psychological Exploration of Desire and the Loss of Innocence
The story of the Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden has been interpreted in many ways, with traditional readings focusing on the serpent as an external force of temptation that lures Eve to disobey God. But what if we reimagine the serpent not as an external creature, but as a metaphorical expression of Adam’s sexual pursuit of Eve? In this interpretation, Adam’s desires—symbolized as a “serpent”—are what lead Eve toward a deeper knowledge, self-awareness, and the inevitable transition from innocence to experience. This interpretation takes the story beyond a literal reading, exploring the complexities of human relationships, temptation, and moral awakening.
Desire as the Catalyst for Self-Awareness
In this retelling, Adam’s desire for Eve becomes the central element driving the narrative. Rather than an external snake luring Eve to the forbidden fruit, it is Adam’s pursuit of her—a manifestation of his own curiosity and attraction—that introduces the first hints of temptation. This approach reframes the story as an exploration of how human attraction and relationships stir a curiosity that extends beyond simple obedience to rules. Adam’s pursuit is not just an act of desire, but a catalyst that awakens Eve’s own curiosity and self-awareness, encouraging her to confront the unknown.
The Forbidden Fruit as Knowledge and the Loss of Innocence
When Eve ultimately decides to “eat the apple,” it symbolizes her acceptance of awareness and her choice to move beyond innocence. The fruit, in this case, does not merely represent disobedience, but rather the understanding of life’s complexities and moral consequences. Eve’s choice marks the point at which she recognizes her own desires and individuality, stepping into a world where her actions carry weight.
In many psychological interpretations, the transition from innocence to knowledge is seen as a necessary, albeit painful, step toward maturity. In eating the apple, Eve symbolically accepts the complexities of her own nature and the nature of her relationship with Adam. The “fruit” thus becomes a symbol of adult awareness, self-knowledge, and moral understanding—qualities that carry with them both the burden of responsibility and the potential for deep human connection.
The Role of Adam’s Pursuit in the “Fall”
Adam’s pursuit of Eve and her response to it illustrate a powerful dynamic: that attraction and curiosity are intertwined with the human drive to seek meaning and connection. His desire for her serves as a force that brings them closer, yet it also leads them into the complex reality of choice, vulnerability, and accountability. In this way, Adam’s pursuit is neither purely good nor bad, but a powerful force that pushes both characters toward a deeper understanding of themselves and each other.
Through this lens, the “fall” is not a tragic event in which paradise is lost due to sin, but a necessary step in the evolution of human consciousness. Adam and Eve, through their attraction and their decision to pursue knowledge, choose to confront the unknown aspects of their nature, embracing the complexities of life outside of innocence.
The Consequences of Desire and the Birth of Responsibility
After the “fall,” Adam and Eve’s newfound awareness leads them to cover themselves in shame, a response that reflects the dawning of moral consciousness. They have moved beyond the simplicity of paradise, entering a world where their actions have consequences, and where the reality of their vulnerability is no longer hidden. This sense of vulnerability and responsibility, while uncomfortable, is essential to the human experience, according to existential perspectives. It is only through embracing these challenges that individuals can find meaning and purpose in their relationships and their lives.
The story, in this interpretation, suggests that the path to maturity is one marked by desire, choice, and moral consequence. Adam’s pursuit awakens a curiosity in Eve that leads to the painful but necessary development of self-awareness and the ability to make moral decisions. Through this journey, they lose the innocence of the Garden, but gain the wisdom required to navigate a world that is complex, imperfect, and ultimately real.
Conclusion
By reframing the story of the Fall as a narrative about human desire and moral awakening, we gain a deeper understanding of the psychological truths within this ancient story. Adam’s attraction to Eve—his metaphorical “serpent”—represents the power of human relationships to both enrich and challenge us. Through their curiosity and their decision to confront the unknown, Adam and Eve transition from innocence to responsibility, embarking on a journey that ultimately grants them the capacity for meaning, growth, and moral understanding. This reinterpretation transforms the Fall into a story about the complexities of human nature and the necessity of embracing responsibility and self-awareness in the pursuit of a fulfilled life.
Its easy. They don't care, they just want a face of a certain colour, in other words, they are very, very racist. Racism has been standardized as antiracism and inclusion.
I want Trudeau gone, but that doesn't mean that I trust this lady. She came off as self centered and manipulative in this interview.
what a beautiful woman
Trudeau is an actor. And a Narcissist. Period. He's not a leader. His 'father' was involved in the M-k Ul-tra human behavior experiments. Think about that for a bit.
And yet there are no consequences for his actions…..😢
A principled politician….. is rare
With all the people we could have voted for to be PM, And Trudeau is all that we could come up with? Talk about scraping the bottom of the garbage pail.
A woman of substance, integrity, intelligence, bravery! I would vote for her any time of the day! Fascinating interview….an inside glimpse that not all is as they say it is.
Oh brother Trudeau stinks
I hope this lady stays in politics for Canada sake
We deserve him as our leader. He is the representation of our wicked hearts. We love abortion, do nothing to stop euthanasia, and celebrate gay relationships. So he’s the man for us!
Those who make the most noise about being very noble are usually the exact opposite. They also like to call you what they are. Like racist, mysogyinist, homophobic, etc.. Time for this criminal narcissist to face the music.
Thank you Celina for your honesty. I have all respect for you and your decision to leave that office. Wow!! Don't ever change!!!❤
The 2015 election was 100% rigged!!! Voter fraud
I just saw this. She's a communist. She's from the Caribbeans just like Kamala is
Canada has been sold out to Indians and other groups that hate Canadians. May the Lord help us
Brilliant interview, very well done!
You are an awesome woman on all levels. I'm sad you had to live through this, with such evil thinking people.
Of course it's still painful to talk about even now.
I would vote for her! He didn’t realize the opportunity he missed out on having her on his team. Or we all missed out on for that matter.
Celina , you are a courageous woman ! You stood up and spoke up . Most importantly. You denied tokenism .
She fit the role in his game of chess.
I don’t like Trudeau and hope he will be voted out, but in all fairness, this lady did not start on the right foot during her very first meeting. Then when he finally meets with her and she brings up the idea of doing something special to highlight people of color, he asks her what she would like to do. She had two choices: one, give her opinion about how she would love to form a committee where various people can be involved in discussing the best way of moving forward to mark this occasion and how she would love to be part of that committee, or two, tell the Prime Minister that it was not up to her to decide. I think he took her at her words when she did not even offer any type of solution, but rather, complained again. She can’t be surprised if a year later, the committee that was set up to discuss how to mark the occasion finally came through with their work. I’m not why she feels she should be involved when she had no solution to bring. Trudeau literally asked her what she would like to do, at which point she could’ve talked about a committee instead of saying it wasn’t up to her to decide. This lady seems like a good person, but I think she makes bad choices in terms of communication.
The situation where she was excluded from the meetings and then paraded out in front of the HOC to make the announcement is CLASSIC NARCISSISTIC behaviour. We all know Trudeau is a narcissist and playing mind games to psychologically torture and demean others is exactly what his game is. Very sad.
I would love to see more Canadian centered content Jordan!
She's going to make a great advisor for Canada's future.
💚🏜️💚 I’m so thankful you were able to share your story on this platform, and thank you Mr. Peterson for an excellent interview.
I hope she is not getting her PhD. in Canada because the panel may now see this and be asked to scrutinize it too deeply and may cost her the time she put into achieving all that she is doing to complete her dissertation.
Does anyone need more reasons to vote Trudeau out next year?
UNBELIEVABLE! Thank you so much for sharing your story. You are incredibly brave. I will be getting your book!!
omg Jordan why do you spend so much time summing up what your guests JUST SAID. You don't have to walk our tiny minds through every single thing.
shes got integrity, and we as Canadians need more of that on every level. In our daily and professional lives.
I love listening to Jordan because he truly gets his gets the bigger voice. Jordan thank you! Celina you are a stellar individual! Thank you for doing the right thing
He was a prince in waiting not a leader.
She was his female black "friend", window dressing, to cover over his blackface history.
If all members of our government conducted themselves with the integrity, bravery, self awareness, confidence, and character of this amazing woman, we would truly live in the best country. I hate that her experience ended up being so negative and I'm proud to have had her represent us ❤
How surprised I am now is I am shocked by Celina's experience. What an awakening for me. There is so much that is running through my mind that is not pleasant. Thank you Celina for this awakening.