Before Market Garden – Operations Linnet and Comet
With James Daly
Part of our Arnhem Week series
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDG3XyxGI5lA_2tt2i7Qyx2n8dX3UnSRc&si=HTEWdwIUJ7uwuA6u
More Operation Market Garden and Arnhem content on WW2TV
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Also part of our 80th Anniversary Series
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As the Allies considered their options for Airborne Forces in the summer of 1944, two planned operations conceived before Market Garden are discussed today – Linnet and Comet
James Daly is a historian and museum curator. James has previously published on the experiences of Portsmouth people in the First and Second world wars. He was inspired to write this series of books on airborne operations by the experiences of his grandfather, who fought at Arnhem with the 11th Battalion Parachute Regiment. Part of the curatorial team that developed the new displays at the D-Day Story in Portsmouth, James has also lectured to a wide range of audiences and appeared on podcasts such as We Have Ways of Making you Talk with Al Murray and James Holland. An Associate Fellow of the Royal Historical Society and an Associate of the Museums Association, James lives and works in Portsmouth, United Kingdom.
Wastage, Tuxedo and Wild Oats – Proposed Airborne Assaults during Operation Overlord
https://youtube.com/live/90hscwaC7kM
Proposed Airborne Assaults in the Liberation of Europe: Cancelled Allied Plans from the Falaise Pocket to Operation Market Garden by James Daly
UK https://uk.bookshop.org/a/5843/9781399036214
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I think the final analysis between Woody and James sums the whole subject up. There are so many questions that may never be answered.
Great presentation, well done James's.
Thanks to both of you. I have James' book and it does fill in a lot of the questions I had – the disagreement between Brereton and Browning played out on a day by day basis over LINNET II is illuminating, particularly how Brereton had got Ridgway on board, but it sounded like Brereton had not told Ridgway he wouldn't have any maps for planning the op, so I wonder if Ridgway, Gavin, and Taylor, really would have gone ahead and executed it anyway or agreed with Browning after all? Lots of questions…
What a brilliant presentation by James. I loved the depth of knowledge and detail.
Great presentation, gives me a lot to think about. Thanks James & Paul!
This was an excellent presentation by James, I found it fascinating, amazed that the planning proposed, which MG took some ideas. I really liked the ideas raised if there had been glider operations for the bridges. Always a pleasure to listen to James. Thank you James and Woody
Brilliant Mr James Daly, and Woody you're the man also for inviting and animating talks with such "pathfinders" ;), as ever 🙂 (I caught up late so here are my congratulations)
I did like TIK old analysis of MG, quite some years ago. What d'you think about, whenever you had a glance at it ? 😉
Excellent and thought provoking presentation and discussion. Thank you gentlemen.
Really great presentation by James Daly. thank you.
Comet land forces planned to start in Eindhoven
Great stuff. I wish I had the research materials James had, it’s first class
Fantastic presentation.
I did start viewing this when it was live, but had to leave about 1/2 way through. Now that I've seen the whole thing I felt it was a good way to see how the planning for MG developed from James Daly's analysis of the planning of Linnet and Comet. Considering the amount of planning and changes that went into Overlord over literally years, it amazes me that MG was as successful as it was. In such a hectic environment it is no wonder to me that it couldn't completely overcome the "friction of war" as was said by Von Clausewitz. I still think that if had worked and Arnhem was secured, how effective would have Monty's single thrust over the Rhine would have been? The Germans would not have allowed such a penetration without a counterattack. After all they were the masters of such fire brigade tactics.
Infatuated sounds like a terrible idea. Jumping into a great flat windy morass surrounded by sea that the Germans can turn into a lake with the press of a button.
We'll, that was the first 5 minutes, looking forward to watch the rest now. 😁
Really interesting presentation. What i wonder about is.. wasn’t there any other ‘chess’ options to make market garden succeed? Like another route of strategic points. Or dropping the 1st airborne on both sides. Or only on the south of Arnhem. Or at least have a back up plan.
Another terrific presentation by James! Thanks so much! It was so interesting to see the various elements from earlier operations that were cancelled that were carried over to MG as well as those that were dropped. I feel I learned a lot from this discussion.
We can discuss whether or not Market-Garden and the pre-MG Comet plans were good or not for the rest of our lives. My thought at the end of this presentation was that the planners failed to take into account the old adage that "no plan survives first contact with the enemy". They didn't plan for the "what ifs". During the design of modern military systems a Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (FMECA) is required, which is basically if component A fails what is the effect on the system.
Fantastic!
Its always interesting hear about other potential 'war winning' plans.
Brilliant piece of work from James Daly with some outstanding maps, my main take away from this is there are so many what ifs.
Excellent presentation by James, the level of detail he has ascertained is staggering.
Linnet Two remains the great mystery for me, that was not really described in detail yet carries great significance, for once Operation Linnet (One) was cancelled, Brereton quickly proposed an alternative to Liege / Maastricht – James highlighted that this had been in his thinking anyway. Linnet Two proposed by Brereton and authorised by Eisenhower involved departures in the hours of morning darkness and double drops so that 30,000 paratroopers could be inserted on D-Day. It is surely understandable why Browning presumed that the same pattern would take place for MG, as distances to drop-zones were virtually identical to Maastricht and Liege as they were to Arnhem. The only difference was 50 minutes less daylight between the two dates. But if Brereton was happy for flights to depart in darkness for his Operation Linnet Two, why was this even relevant?
Many people subsequently blame Browning / Montgomery for the failure for presuming that two drops could have been also executed in Operation Sixteen that became Market Garden. Operation Sixteen proposed small insertions in darkness of glider forces by the key bridges, followed by two large scale airdrops on D-Day. Brereton and Williams transformed this allowing only a mid-day airdrop with only part-strength forces in Market Garden on D-Day.
What changed between Brereton's own Operation Linnet Two on 3rd September and his rescheduling of Market Garden which took place on the 17th September? The 50 minutes less daylight argument doesn't wash with me as in Linnet Two forces were to take off in darkness, with four hours between each drop. So there was leeway anyway.
This is a fascinating area of discussion that I would like to have seen discussed here as it is the crux of the matter. Politics? I loved Pauls football analogy, but remaining on this theme, this was like Match of the Day showing the goals but not discussing contentious moments such as a debatable disallowed goal.
on MG and gavin-postwar he changed his mind several times on why he didnt take the nimigen bridge on the first day-even though he knew it was all about the bridges.ive been to both arnhem and nimigen -the bridge over the central maas channel is so much bigger and would have represented a significant barrier if it had been blown. perhaps the story of the dutch resistance guy cutting the cables is true-if the 82nd had rushed the bridge on the first day, the mighty bridge would have been blown by the platoon of ss guarding the bridge
where was windy gale in all of this -why is he cut out even though he had competently handled 6th airborne at normandy, including against tank attack
I think we could do a week of this topic from different perspectives. But my head is spinning now with all the questions I have. So much intriguer with just the officers wanting to take others jobs…. so interesting – please come back James there is so much more you can tell us all. Thank you James and Woody for such an amazing, educational and informative talks as always
Interesting presentation especially the issue of Flak. With a 2nd lift operation every aircraft loss or damage due to flak from the 1st lift reduces the aircraft availability for the 2nd lift. It's also not just the aircraft but the loss of troops in the aircraft. Hence, it's a balancing act in terms getting as close as possible to the target and the levels of losses that both the airmen and ground commanders are prepared to accept and the impact on sequence lifts.
Brilliant background to Market Garden. A lot of what happened at Arnhem suddenly makes sense.
When the Comms didn't work, did they not try to sneak light planes in around the flak batteries, like they did to infiltrate spies, particularly when xxx corps wet close by?
the bottom line is MG was rushed-the scheldt estuary should have been liberated first and enough time given to planning a large airborne operation