Let’s talk through the datasheets of the chaos spacemarine codex in a tier ranking of rough power and strength for their points!
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0:00 Intro
2:09 Tier 5
4:49 Tier 4
9:29 Tier 3
23:04 Tier 2
41:01 Tier 1
48:26 Outro
source
Heldrake you suffer twice, first you have to paint all that trim and THEN it's overcosted in game!
As boring as it is, I'd but Cultist Mob in tier 1, simply because 50 points for 10 models that grants sticky on home objective, can do secondaries in the corner, screen etc. is amazing. Alternatively, you spent minimum 80 points on legionaries parked on home and they will do nothing else all game.
Not sure about Bikers as tier 1. With their reworked ability, I don't see them above everything you put in tier 2. Otherwise, pretty good list!
i'll be running the alpha legion detachment because they're still my favorite legion. I think using their infiltrator detachment rule on legionaries with a chaos lord is gonna be dangerous for everyone else
Under 50 min gang
My theory about Lord Discordant is that GW sold SO many of these models in 8th and 9th, they figure everyone's got one. They made him mediocre so players will buy something else and use that instead.😅
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My dread talons box arrived today, I was wondering whether to make raptors or warp talons
I wonder why I hear a Pancreas molding in the background
What about Greater Brass Scorpion?
Seems balanced tier list wise- very few in 1 or 5, but plenty in 2 and 3
Here’s taking this as a good sign from the dark gods themselves!
Nerf the MoP, and include them in the new Combat Patrol.
WOW
Yay, the coked up snails (Venomcrawlers) are viable!
When 20yr old chaos biker squad is better than the ravenwing bikers lol
They should have made MOP give his unit dev wounds on charge as his specialty and given possessed advance and charge as base ability
Defilers are definitely Tier 5. Heavily overcosted for what they do. It would be worth taking if it got either Advance and Charge, or Indirect Fire.
Regarding the Venom Crawler and the less good "gain attacks" rule: I know in the physical codex it says you have to kill units in melee, BUT in the updated app it says: "At the end of ANY phase, if one or more attacks made by this model in that phase destroyed one or more enemy units…" Which is the old rule. So, either they reversed the change from the codex or they made a mistake when updating the app. Either way, with the app supposedly having the most up to date, legal rules, you can still get your extra attacks from melee and ranged unit kills.
So, I have memories of the days back when Chaos was, in many ways, just a reprint of the Astartes, with spijes,and their angst turned up to 11. I know we should celebrate how much different they can be, now, compared to their Loyalist counterparts, so I guess it's nice that at least some Space Marines can make Bikes, and Terminators, good? Yes, I'm complaining, and about two things I have already complained about, but it does feel weird that Chaos Bikers, and Terminators, are pretty good; rated Tier 2, or better, in a codex that's looking like it will at least rather decent, but then the Astartes; the faction you'd think GW would just plush on principle, who have both a dedicated Biker Chapter, in the White Scars, and a dedicated detachment for each of these units, can't necessarily make either of them good?
Beyond that whine, I'm pleased with where CSM is setting up. They might not be as meta-bending as Orks will be, but I expect them to spank Loyalist Space Marines, and numerous other factions, as well. Not my preferred faction, certainly but looking decent.
Im glad alpha legion are looking good this edition, i love those scamps
Just picked up my Veterans battleforce. LGS also has the old Combat Patrol so got that too. What should i do for a 1k list? What should I buy to make a 2k list?
I'm painting them as Alpha Legion if that affects anything.
… my codex says venomcrawlers are 140pts per model. Is that just a misprint or something because you're the second I've seen say its 110pts
Great, now this shall be the edition we call them the Things shall not be named. Kinda a shame since Chaos Spawns were good before the update.
Wait, no! I didn't mean to say it! OHGODLORDPLEASEHELPMEEEEEEE-
*Transforms into the Thing that shall not be named
Imagine all those folks that were paying ebay 70 dollar prices for MoP ×3 and now they are useless. Well played GW.
MoE is tier 1 it's not even an argument
Not a huge typo, but the Lord when he goes Super saiyan for a turn gets AP as well as the 3 you liated. Great vid keep em coming!
MoE gives full hit rerolls with an easy condition, great combo with legionaries and can attach to an unit with a chaos lord. That plus a very solid datasheet with Dev and Precision. For only 80 pts, I think he is bottom tier 1 or high tier 2.
I have seen a 5 unit of legionaries, chaos lord and MoE be quite scary.
The rare codex that has basic CSM as a good option. Praise be to the dark gods!
It’s too bad every aircraft is bottom tier because they have some really cool looking aircraft models.
20:15 Hey hey there, boys and girls, it's ya boy Lucius, and today we're going to be talking about how fucking old and out of date my model looks! I'm so fucking past my prime that even the Blood Angels characters are getting updated before me!
I had some success and fun with a raptor blob outfitted with some meltas. Im keen to try them some more.
At this point, the only way to take flyers & not be at a massive disadvantage is to house rule them.
My friends & I do the following:
All flyers can start on the board if they want to.
When coming from reserves counts there battle round as one higher than it is (which means they can come in BR1).
Hover mode can be turned on/off in command phase.
Free Rapid Ingress one flyer per turn (in addition to the strategem).
Turning is at start OR end of turn (both if a ‘fighter’ type aircraft).
Bombs can be dropped the same turn as coming from reserves.
CANNOT be move blocked by ground forces – just move them onto or around the flyer base.
I'm sorry the acurst cults got buffed in my eye coz of the scout and surg
Heldrake is not overall weak tbh. Yeah it's very specialized, but it's insanely good at it.
Anything Fly units that it touches will juat die. I had my Heldrake kill 5 Rubric + Ahriman in 1 turn of melee yesterday. And he heavily dmged a Mutalith + killed Tzaangors before that.
He may just need some cost decrease, but if you expect a lot of Fliers like Tau, he's a very good choice.
I literally killed off a few chaos bikes with an overwatch Doomstalker. 😅 Tier 2 maybe.
Not sure if mentioned by anyone else, but the chaos lord also gives an additional AP for his once per battle boost
Is it just me or has no-one noticed Abaddon can lead Terminators and now CHOSEN! (Not Legionaires!). This is HUGE in my mind! Yes, Abaddon has been nerfed, but to be able to lead chosen with shoot and charge if advance, reroll dark pact rolls, then chosen can get Abaddons 4+ inv. Not too shabby! I haven't seen any reviewer say that change to Abaddon at all, let alone the usefulness of it! HA HA, just say your Abaddon T2 comments!
Legionaries being Tier 1. What a time to be alive
CSM players are eating good. I'm pleased the super basic old skool types are good. Legionaries and a Lord in a Rhino, backed up with Cultists are close to the best units to field, and what CSM army doesn't have them? Daemon Princes and Bikes ok – you can genuinely field a retro 2nd, 3rd edition list and win.
2x 5 man legionaire squads. Each with 2 pf, 2 cs, and a reaper chain gun. Put both in a rhino. In the raider detachment you're getting d6+20 shots vs hordes at str5/ ap/-1/ dam1. If elite is the meta, turn them into autocannons. When your self healing bunkers pop, you've still got the same guns. Plus it'll be worth a look of shock as your ork opponent watches 2 rhinos spew 50 rounds at their ork blob and melt that mf like butter in the sun 😂😂
I think the Hellbrute might be good in soulpact as well.
If you turn it into a Daemon Engine T1, Then it can gain the 2 Extra Attacks for its Melee Weapon. Plus, it gains more attacks if you have two Melee weapons equipped now. That means a lot of Helbrute hammer strikes. Even before you add the effects of lethal hits and sustained hits. I think it could be a good bodyguard for some Forgefiends.
I still don't understand why they didn't make the Sorcerer a luitenant type to help make him useful and the Chaos Spawn at least be an option in squad-sizes of 2,4 or 6. All-in-all, things are pretty good though.
Wow I remember not long ago the MoP was tier 1.
One note with the master of executions is that he pairs extremely well with legionaries, they already get reroll wounds on objectives and then as long as you chip a wound or model off of a unit, the MoE will give them reroll hits as well. A unit of legionaries with an MoE in renegade raiders is extremely efficient as an objective taker. The precision with the full rerolls makes the MoE actually scary into most characters well, does about 8 dmg on average into most characters without a FNP.
Hands down, one of the best CSM Codex since decades.
-Eight detachments, most of them very interesting, versatile and and at least playable with the right units.
-Covers almost every playstyle: Cultist spam, tactical powerhouse elites, tanky siege walls, fast hitting raiders, daemon engines, shock troops…etc. And we are still good in melee and dakka!
-They really tried to give every unit a good Spot. Most of the units can be top tier with the right detachment.
-Of course we have some flaws: Helldrake and Disco Lord are almost forgotten, Dread Talons are underwhelming but atleast Vashtorr got good.