Today we talk about the two major controversies to pop up around the Fallout TV Show. One which claims that certain dates shown in the Fallout TV Show make the fan favorite Fallout: New Vegas non-canon. And other claims about the NCR being destroyed.
Timestamps:
00:00 – Did Fallout lore just get ruined?
01:48 – New Vegas Retcon
06:29 – The Show Messed Up
09:50 – The NCR Are Gone
13:36 – NCR in Season 2
Twitter: https://twitter.com/JuiceHead33
Discord: https://discord.gg/jzhzrhm
Sources:
Mentions of Shady Sands in New Vegas:
https://youtu.be/lz2mP0fdtlo
https://youtu.be/aNVqJCyrg8s
President Kimball: https://youtu.be/KBhfzZdG_kA
Map of NCR Territory: https://bethesdarpg-blog.tumblr.com/post/113154546832/map-of-ncr-territory
Bethesda Confirms New Vegas is Canon: https://twitter.com/Dezinuh/status/1778466533649392038
Fallout 2 NCR Gameplay: https://youtu.be/sC3PbCgoNtE
Shady Sands Gameplay: https://youtu.be/ibk6r8-sHO8
Thumbnail: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/images/207091
Author – TheParryGod13
#Fallout #FalloutTVShow #NewVegas
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6:42 90% of “fans” are trolls and sheep also during the new vegas story the desert rangers don’t turn up until late maybe they were fighting in the “fall of shady sands”
I feel like you perfectly cleared up everything how I was thinking about it. Thanks for making this video to sway the minds of confused fans.
The show did not specify exactly WHEN the bomb detonated in NCR. The caulk board says it "fell" in 2277, which is vague and initially I thought that meant that there was infighting that LED to a bomb detonation, but in New Vegas there's no indication that the NCR was nuked. All we know is that the military is spread thin, raiders are a problem in NCR territory and that resources are somewhat limited due to the NCR's struggle to support hundreds of thousands of citizens. If they really wanted to go down this NUKE path, they should've made ties to the Courier and his decision to nuke NCR territory after Lonesome Road. I liked the show, but this was a major mistake. Even though I would've liked to see the NCR at the height of its power, I'm not opposed to someone hitting the reset button on them. My problem is that we haven't been given a date for when it happened, leading to lore inconsistencies.
Now if the NCR is hit with a reset it makes me wonder if Caesar's Legion will make a comeback, or who occupies/controls New Vegas.
Bethesda and Obsidian are like cat and dog even if they are both under microsoft, bethesda hate that the best fallout known its not even made by them
Let's assume for just one second that the bomb DID destroy Shady Sands in 2277. Can that be true, AND all of New Vegas still be canon? I think so. Let me explain.
I think the bomb fell in 2277 and destroyed Shady Sands, which they had relocated closer to Los Angeles sometime between the events of Fallout 2 and the show. (The city appears to relocate between Fallout and Fallout 2, so it could move again, although I admit maybe they probably just moved it for the convenience of the show.)
Few of the people in the Mojave Wasteland would have been aware of Shady Sands' destruction. Most wastelanders don't travel very far in their lifetimes because of the dangers of the wasteland, and that long-range communications basically do not exist, and we know this because information is sent via couriers, robots (ED-E), etc.
Now, I'm sure high-ranking NCR officers and people in positions of power would have known, and they would have had a vested interest in keeping that information under wraps. Why? Because after the destruction of Shady Sands, securing Hoover Dam was their last play to regain power. A victory at the Second Battle of Hoover Dam would potentially give them the resources needed to secure Vegas and have a new capital.
And I think they lost that battle, based on the ending of episode 8. That's why the NCR headquarters is at Griffith Observatory; if they had won the Battle of Hoover dam, I'm sure New Vegas would have been the new capital of the NCR. The NCR lost Shady Sands, they lost Hoover Dam, and they simply could not get back on their feet after those devastating losses.
Tbh i see no problem here.
The ncr HAD to fall otherwise it would no longer be a show about surviving a post apocalyptic world. It would be about the struggles of building a new one. Same thing with ceasars legion inevitably having imploded. Probably going to be the courier ending to vegas confirmed but for whatever reason the courier is gone and its become an independant city state.
Shady sands was the place ncr was the region, the fact shady sands is gone doesnt mean the ncr have been completely wiped out. It just means shady sands is gone.
The dates dont seem that problematic when you take into account maximus age and the assumed time the show is set.
Shady sands having a vault under it isnt that big of a deal depending upon when the vault opened and how well hidden it originally was.
The distances being covered are essentially nods to fast travel is the way i see it.
8:27 Yes but as we know in the Fallout world if you don't have a iron grip over a region it tends to fall to Anarchy and Chaos pretty fast. So Nov 2276 could easily just be the last days of civility in a region that will soon fall to chaos. With chaos, comes a lack of literacy. I don't see Raiders or Legion doing a whole lot of reading. So what ever faction undid Shady Sands it would very easily undo the whole need / want to read thus a need for a library.
A dates slightly off and the coordinates of a location isn’t exact and the nerds cry. Am I the only nerd who thinks this isn’t a big deal show was sick
TL;DR from the comments,
They stepped on the toes of established Fallout geography
We can also just not consider the show to be canon and quit caring for what Bethesda says. We have the freedom to pick and choose what we enjoy after all.
I mean it ruined fallout lore in the same way that fallout 3 4 and 76 did
I can’t believe you’re trying to justify this trash. In New Vegas the NCR was practically a functional modern state, and you expect me to believe that in 2277 they are basically just a glorified raider gang that worships some woke deity? This show is clearly trying to destroy the old lore. It’s not retconing it, but it is absolutely ruining it. I knew Bethesda hated Obsidian and New Vegas for providing undeniable proof that Bethesda is bad at RPG’s and story writing. But I didn’t expect them to behave this petty and sadistic.
Grade A cope
here my idea, shady sands was nuked in 2281, when the courier nuked it using the nukes from lonesome road
"Did the Fallout TV Show Just Ruin Fallout Lore?"
No of course not, Bethesda already did more than a decade ago.
The bombs went off in 2077. This made life rough or worse for everyone impacted (who survived) by either the explosions or the fallout, marking the beginning of the fall of Shady Sands. The library probably stopped caring so much about checking out books at that point.
Then LATER, Shady Sands was bombed *directly*.
A lot of this discourse about when Shady Sands was "destroyed" seems silly. Or I just don't get what other people aren't getting. It was destroyed once when everything else was, as Shady Sands does not exist in another reality. It was extra destroyed when you-know-who, if-you-finished-the-show, decided to bomb it again.
I mean I did enjoy the show but dude is trying way too hard at defending writers who cared very little for the source material . Cooper was a beautifully written character though and Goggins has grown so so much since his Oz days it’s mind boggling.
I didn’t even realize we were supposed to take the tv show as being canon…
So why's Shady Sands now in LA instead of Death Valley?
It looks to me like they mixed lore for times sake. Is this the BH that is hiding in New Vagas and if this is The Maximus then well they just mixed a ton of lore up. Unfortunately we will never see a totally accurate depiction of any game on film. As HUGE Fallout Nerd I was OK with the fact that they did not pull a Netflix Witcher on us (Thanks mate for sticking to your guns) War Never Changes
I've always wondered where Shady Sands was located. If you go by the map shown at 8:50, it isn't even in California, but in Nevada.
In history, we don't use the term "fall" to describe the start of something collapsing, the word for that is "decline".
Rome fell in 476, it's decline began around 400.
This particular retcon could be fixed if they had written "decline" instead.
It seems like from your video that they absolutely did?
The whole 2277 -> Nuke thing aside, When we see a shot of Shady Sands and the crater, doesn't anyone see the massive collection of dilapidated building in the background? The same massive collection of buildings that receive the cold fusion power?
Shady Sands isn't GONE. It's just been beaten to a pulp for its lunch money. Why would anyone bother to provide a limitless power source?
Unless Shady Sands still exists and may even have a chunk of population living within those buildings?
😊 Then why is there no Time-Stamp on top of the Nuke picture. Everyone remembers a 200 year old nuclear war, but not when Shady Sands got destroyed. Also why didnt Hub or Vault City become the 2nd Capital?
this sounds like a lot of copium. maximus was there, he was young, and we know the date of the TV show start. SS was nuked in 2277. if not then Maximus should be way older, and I don't know about you, but when I make a timeline of something, I write down the dates. if SS was nuked later, why didn't they write that date down on the chalkboard. oh wait, they did. it's 2277. IMHO what happened is that the TV show had a couple great writers and a lot of shitty writers, and they wanted to set the show in California, but they didn't know how to handle the NCR, which would be a major force in the region, to say the least, so thy just killed it off, off-camera. because those writers are losers. big losers.
I don't understand why people can't let them both exist simultaneously… It's not like rewriting actual history. Its fake, made up, FICTIONAL. So who cares?
I think the NCR moved its capital to New Vegas following the Canon death of House and Defeat of the legion. If you think about it makes sense as its probably the most intact city on the continent, has running water, doesn't have the same radiation levels and has the hoover dam providing power. Seems like a better ready made capital to me.
The show being an alternative timeline is the only logical thing. Shady Sands was nowhere near LA. No vault in LA would've survived the Master. T-60 in the west coast make no sense since the T-51 armour is clearly superior and the west coast brotherhood had A LOT of these. NCR was not a provisional city-state, it was a whole country spanning almost 2 entire states. Their capital city would've been way bigger than 30k inhabitants and the country itself could've easily held together unless all the major cities were nuked. Not even going to talk about the classical problem, that being Bethesda being absolutely anti-civilization when it comes to Fallout. It's been 219 fucking years, 219 years ago Napoleon was still around. Stop it.
something i found out:
tv series time period 2296 – 2297
Fallout: New Vegas takes place during the year 2281 in the region around the former city of Las Vegas (now the city-state "New Vegas"), around four years after the events of Fallout 3 and 204 years after the Great War of 2077.
Fallout 4 takes place in the year 2287, 10 years after the events of Fallout 3 and 210 years after the Great War, a war between the United States and China over natural resources that ended in a nuclear holocaust in 2077.
meaning series is future from all fallout games so no redcons at least major ones, only red cons there can be are is info mentioned in games, if its stuff not mentioned in games its not redcon but addon/new detail or detail never mentioned before
Can ya give mod list youre using? its amazing!
I saw an interview with one of the show runners and he mentions something along the lines of “we made the Gulpers bigger than they were in New Vegas but we’re staying pretty accurate to the game” … There are no Gulpers in New Vegas… These guys don’t know the lore as well as they think they do… I genuinely believe they mistakenly made choices about the lore unknowingly.
I think it's more likely that they made a few mistakes. Just enough to get us talking 😉
the copium is big with this one
The shadowy person at the vault-tec conference was the us president
No retcons here folks, just… "Mistakes in production"
The whole show was a mistake in production, fight me.
The tineline literally has 2277 as the only date next to the mushroom cloud drawing.
If Shady Sands wasn't nuked in 2277, the timeline would absolutely have a fucking label by the mushroom cloud with a different year.
The knly way you can enjoy this show is by doing olympic level mental gymnastics to make up for Bethesda's lazy and careless writing.
Bethesda should stick to the East Coast intstead of pissing on West Coast lore. This is Pathetic Todd Howard just removing one of the most popular factions because hes salty the best Fallout is New Vegas.
Can't compare without finding disparities, but shouldn't dissuade from accepting it on its own. From only initial episode, it's derivative, revisioned, & includes contemporary issues, although areas of the plot are inconsistent & not convincing about those vault conditions & inhabitants characterizations, capabilities, & philosophies, including those factions presented so far: raiders, BoS, … is what it is on its own & for current USA conditions. Prolly cause for releasing the complete season, that strategy aids their format & somehow could make their scripts seem coherent.
Holy cope
Didn’t they fly you out to see the premier? Definitely trust your judgement
Also consider that those maps could have been inaccurate. It's not like they have sattelites and the difficulty of traversal can also compromise that accuracy.
Google said it was based after fallout 4 so I’m just hoping that the minutemen will make an appearance at some point. Maybe some leftover synths as well
Fallout is my favorite game of all time and I always side with the NCR, but it's obvious the nation is dying. The first battle of Hover dam only happens because the NCR have ran out of fresh water in Cali. Hence the fall of the NCR in 2077. Without the couriers intervention, all other forces in the Mojave work to remove the NCR from Nevada. One person cannot realistically save a nation and in Fallout NV that's what happens when you side with the NCR, so I believe the NCR failed to colonize the Mojave, failed to get the water California needed to survive, and famine has already started during Fallout NV. Realistically, the courier most likely dies when shot in the head
I think this is grasping at straws… 100% based on an arrow…. you're better than this juice… stop doing bethesda propaganda… this was a massive screw up THEY need to fix… not you do it for them
They just didnt wanna write complex stuff about Goverment, Legion, and Mr. House.
😛
The library book last checked out in November 2276 isn't a mistake or plot hole, it's an "Overdue Book" Easter egg
And what's the excuse for the time of day during the great war? It should have been 6 am in LA and I don't think that's when you celebrate a birthday party…