28 thoughts on “WARSHIPS | The forgotten titans of BattleTech”
The real nerds. WOKE Jack A$$ tourists stay the hell out! We earned our credit! BT is the last one to remain untainted. To the videos point. Kerensky flipped out when a Texas class battleship broke ranks. On a final note, second edition D&D lasted longer than all other editions combined.
The problem with these ships is they bring more problems than they solve…. meaning how do you drop a lance in on a mission when an enemy warship can just nuke them from orbit? Sure you can say massive guns on ships would generate too much heat…. but you can fire missiles that don't.
So, removing them from the universe was a good call.
I wish they were more relevant in the lore and fiction, but I get that they are pure narrative cancer because they have no counter besides another warship.
3D printer for the win. Go fesin. The STLs >can< be found and several come with a scale for all battle ttpes. Granted a warship section covers a complete gaming table for a mech scale game and it takes a couple Kg to print but we have done it for giggles
I played all 3 games and everything space and flying was great for lore but not so well developed on the game side. They’re all fun but BT was obviously where most of the work was. Also, FASA had Star Trek at about the same time that I think siphoned off sales and talent. That was really fun too.
Insert Obligatory "But what about the videogame Children of a Dead Earth??" here. A videogame that barely rates the term as it was more a geek's VERY deep dive into simulating what actual space combat would look like in the future. Also one of those games that everyone eventually hears about and very few actually play it. It turns out a simulator isn't the same as a videogame and isn't as fun. But it IS as hardcore realistic as possible. It defines the "10" on the hardness scale for spacecombat realism.
Ok with that obligatory out of the way. My actual comment. @14:40 your description of the starleague and it's massive navy and how it influenced combat…Pretty much EXACTLY reflects Modern day earth and the US Navy. Post WW2 the stated job for the US Navy was to enforce freedom of trade…But only for those who didn't trade with the USSR. If you wanted safety on the high seas…you followed the rules of the USN. Still happening now with China and Taiwan. China has out-right admitted they would have invaded Taiwan if it wasn't for the USN. Not trying to be political, it's just an interesting reflection of art and IRL.
Battlespace is great fun. I actually dug my copy out a few months ago to derp around again. But just like the ground forces game, someone with a functional brain stem can use the rules for ship construction to design a vessel that absolutely shits all over every single canon design.
It sounds like it needs a space combat BattleTech computer game, would basicly start with Stellaris and then add a few more levels of complexity on top of it. By changeing a few of combat rules could result in ships needing to recharge/cooldown. It sounds like an intresting mod idea for someone to test.
Sadly, to remedy the issue with space combat and warships, it was determined by a of the former Line Director to completely remove them and replace them with what they deemed as "pocket warships." These would fall under aerospace rules set. This was accomplished during the later part of the Jihad (mostly at the Assault of Terra) and into the era leading up to MechWarrior: Dark Age. I can say for certain that this decision was met with some really adamant rebuffs and strong opinions; however, to no avail. It was going to be this way, like or not, or hit the highway. And so, those who were intrinsically involved with AeroTech/Battle Space developing walked away never to look back. The rest is history leaving us with what you see now of the BattleTech universe and the state of the game.
Also known as…..How to kill mech combat. I do not understand people's obsession with WarShips in Battletech. They are one of the few things that break the setting, so why would you want them? Go play Starfleet Battles if you want an overly complicated space combat simulator, but leave Battletech to the ground forces.
I found the comment about the Free World's League struggling to field any warships (around the 19:00 mark) interesting, because I'd just been reading the 3067 Technical Manual, and in their warships section ComStar notes that the Free World's League (in 3067, at least) had a bigger Warship fleet than any of the other Great Houses, and roughly on par with some of the Clan fleets. I couldn't find any specific numbers, although I seem to recall once reading that the Snow Ravens had the most Warships of any Clan with 40 ships, so I'm guessing it wasn't that big. But still interesting to see how the different factions can definitely rise and fall.
I would love Catalyst to do a plastics line of minis like the mechs but for the Ships – if the space combat part was sorta light I wouldn't mind It just hurts my Battlemech soul that Drop fleet and Drop zone now owns the "battle-space".
I think you did a great job, though one little mistake. The real reasons the Jumpships and Warships use solar sails are twofold.
First, the jumpcore has to be kept supercold to function. Charging the core too quickly could cause thermal effects that damage the core and cause issues when jumping through hyperspace. The ship's main reactor has more than enough output to charge the core in far shorter times than the jumpsail can, but this causes thermal expansion on the core that can damage it.
Secondly is efficiency, using the main powerplant to charge the jumpdrive can burn huge amounts of the ship's hydrogen fuel. Oversimplified, for every day you shorten your recharge time by you burn the same amount of hydrogen you would have if the ship had been under 1g of acceleration the whole time.
The problem with warships in Battletech is that once one is in orbit, the ground engagement is pretty irrelevant. One naval strike and your pretty Mech company is so much ash. It renders the rest of the game irrelevant.
I remember playing BattleSpace back in the day. Honestly the coolest part that I think you didn't mention is actually a rules thing talking about the fact that damage actually scales between the versions of the FASA games. Manpad weapons do 1/10 the damage mech based stuff does and warships do another x10 damage; so a single shot from even the weakest capitol weapons blows through mechs as it's stronger than even AC/20s. It really puts everything into perspective when you realize a small laser can insta-kill a human but the same thing on a warship does it to a mech.
So, you're showing a picture of Strategic Operations while claiming that "maybe 10 pages" are devoted to Aerotech and Battlespace rules. Those rules are like 75% of that book! I mean, at least take a peek at the table of contents.
The real nerds. WOKE Jack A$$ tourists stay the hell out! We earned our credit! BT is the last one to remain untainted.
To the videos point. Kerensky flipped out when a Texas class battleship broke ranks.
On a final note, second edition D&D lasted longer than all other editions combined.
The problem with these ships is they bring more problems than they solve…. meaning how do you drop a lance in on a mission when an enemy warship can just nuke them from orbit? Sure you can say massive guns on ships would generate too much heat…. but you can fire missiles that don't.
So, removing them from the universe was a good call.
I wish they were more relevant in the lore and fiction, but I get that they are pure narrative cancer because they have no counter besides another warship.
3D printer for the win. Go fesin. The STLs >can< be found and several come with a scale for all battle ttpes. Granted a warship section covers a complete gaming table for a mech scale game and it takes a couple Kg to print but we have done it for giggles
The Fedcom civil war era had some good space battle scenes in it.
I played all 3 games and everything space and flying was great for lore but not so well developed on the game side. They’re all fun but BT was obviously where most of the work was. Also, FASA had Star Trek at about the same time that I think siphoned off sales and talent. That was really fun too.
Using Battlespace and just simplifying the heat management somewhat makes for a fantastic space combat game <3
Insert Obligatory "But what about the videogame Children of a Dead Earth??" here.
A videogame that barely rates the term as it was more a geek's VERY deep dive into simulating what actual space combat would look like in the future. Also one of those games that everyone eventually hears about and very few actually play it. It turns out a simulator isn't the same as a videogame and isn't as fun. But it IS as hardcore realistic as possible. It defines the "10" on the hardness scale for spacecombat realism.
Ok with that obligatory out of the way. My actual comment.
@14:40 your description of the starleague and it's massive navy and how it influenced combat…Pretty much EXACTLY reflects Modern day earth and the US Navy.
Post WW2 the stated job for the US Navy was to enforce freedom of trade…But only for those who didn't trade with the USSR. If you wanted safety on the high seas…you followed the rules of the USN.
Still happening now with China and Taiwan. China has out-right admitted they would have invaded Taiwan if it wasn't for the USN.
Not trying to be political, it's just an interesting reflection of art and IRL.
Battlespace is great fun. I actually dug my copy out a few months ago to derp around again. But just like the ground forces game, someone with a functional brain stem can use the rules for ship construction to design a vessel that absolutely shits all over every single canon design.
I had aerotech and was always sad that they hadn’t made more of space combat
It sounds like it needs a space combat BattleTech computer game, would basicly start with Stellaris and then add a few more levels of complexity on top of it. By changeing a few of combat rules could result in ships needing to recharge/cooldown. It sounds like an intresting mod idea for someone to test.
Thanks!
Like using four fortress class dropships, to take a planet, doing slow drops and Longtom gun bombardment of the enemy lines.
I played AeroTech when it first came out so I never got into warships. But when it came to Aerospace fighters escorting dropships I had a blast.
Your fleets can't be destroyed overnight that's true they can be destroyed in a minute with one phone call 😊
Sadly, to remedy the issue with space combat and warships, it was determined by a of the former Line Director to completely remove them and replace them with what they deemed as "pocket warships." These would fall under aerospace rules set. This was accomplished during the later part of the Jihad (mostly at the Assault of Terra) and into the era leading up to MechWarrior: Dark Age. I can say for certain that this decision was met with some really adamant rebuffs and strong opinions; however, to no avail. It was going to be this way, like or not, or hit the highway. And so, those who were intrinsically involved with AeroTech/Battle Space developing walked away never to look back. The rest is history leaving us with what you see now of the BattleTech universe and the state of the game.
Also known as…..How to kill mech combat. I do not understand people's obsession with WarShips in Battletech. They are one of the few things that break the setting, so why would you want them? Go play Starfleet Battles if you want an overly complicated space combat simulator, but leave Battletech to the ground forces.
i’ve known about the fact that Battle tech has had warships for a long time
Our Northern Colorado has played several space battles. Some rules we had to make, because the rules are vague. It was fun
Small correction, ComStar still had warships when the Clan Invasion started.
Battlespace was just revised rules from Renegade Legions "Leviathan" game.
I want to say the only original update was the 3067 tech readout.
The rules to battlespace just had too many layers to make it something you play day to day, and was more of a campaign layer than anything else.
Oof, I've never been referred to as "vintage" before… 😂
I found the comment about the Free World's League struggling to field any warships (around the 19:00 mark) interesting, because I'd just been reading the 3067 Technical Manual, and in their warships section ComStar notes that the Free World's League (in 3067, at least) had a bigger Warship fleet than any of the other Great Houses, and roughly on par with some of the Clan fleets. I couldn't find any specific numbers, although I seem to recall once reading that the Snow Ravens had the most Warships of any Clan with 40 ships, so I'm guessing it wasn't that big. But still interesting to see how the different factions can definitely rise and fall.
I would love Catalyst to do a plastics line of minis like the mechs but for the Ships – if the space combat part was sorta light I wouldn't mind It just hurts my Battlemech soul that Drop fleet and Drop zone now owns the "battle-space".
I think you did a great job, though one little mistake. The real reasons the Jumpships and Warships use solar sails are twofold.
First, the jumpcore has to be kept supercold to function. Charging the core too quickly could cause thermal effects that damage the core and cause issues when jumping through hyperspace. The ship's main reactor has more than enough output to charge the core in far shorter times than the jumpsail can, but this causes thermal expansion on the core that can damage it.
Secondly is efficiency, using the main powerplant to charge the jumpdrive can burn huge amounts of the ship's hydrogen fuel. Oversimplified, for every day you shorten your recharge time by you burn the same amount of hydrogen you would have if the ship had been under 1g of acceleration the whole time.
The problem with warships in Battletech is that once one is in orbit, the ground engagement is pretty irrelevant. One naval strike and your pretty Mech company is so much ash. It renders the rest of the game irrelevant.
I remember playing BattleSpace back in the day. Honestly the coolest part that I think you didn't mention is actually a rules thing talking about the fact that damage actually scales between the versions of the FASA games. Manpad weapons do 1/10 the damage mech based stuff does and warships do another x10 damage; so a single shot from even the weakest capitol weapons blows through mechs as it's stronger than even AC/20s. It really puts everything into perspective when you realize a small laser can insta-kill a human but the same thing on a warship does it to a mech.
So, you're showing a picture of Strategic Operations while claiming that "maybe 10 pages" are devoted to Aerotech and Battlespace rules. Those rules are like 75% of that book! I mean, at least take a peek at the table of contents.